Map claiming

[Ephialtis]

I've just had an experience that's apparently quite common. Having decided to build my new city well away from my main area, I looked for a spot in a part of the map that's as deserted as I could find. My new city is the only one in its kingdom, with hardly anyone in the surrounding kingdoms. But within twenty-four hours I was spied on by a player much larger than me, and was sent a message warning me to move or be attacked -- it seems that he's too insecure to be able to play with anyone near him. He's three kingdoms away from me, in a similarly isolated position.

OK, it's childish and bullying and all the rest, that goes without saying, but it's also the sort of thing that drives people away from games like this. I don't know what if anything can be done about it, but I'm surprised that no game developer has tried to come up with a way to make sure that people actually play the game, rather than acting out the schoolboy-bully fantasies generated by their inadequate lives. I suppose that we all ought to be sorry for such people, but they do seem intent upon making sure that these sorts of game are only playable by similar people who don't understand the notion of a game, but think that they're actually involved in war.

[kingkano]

But you do realise this is a WAR game? This player could just let you set up, then keep attacking and destroying your villages, robbing you etc. That is after all what the game is about....

I suspect they only care about the ruins in that area. If they are a big player, they have a big army. It costs alot of gold to pay the salary of this big army, which is gotten from ruins. You moving into the area is a threat to the ruins they need to feed that army, hence warning you off.

Not sure why you dont think it should be part of the game? Just like any real world situation, somebody claims ownership to something, somebody else says no I want it, and war breaks out....

[Ephialtis]

That's what everyone always replies -- but my point is that it's a war-GAME. I've played games of many types, including real-world war games, and it's only the on-line ones that generate the hostility and nastiness that I'm talking about. Perhaps it's the anonymity, perhaps merely not being face-to-face with the people with whom one is PLAYING the game, perhaps just immaturity (adolescent males are notoriously aggressive).

I'm happy with the notion that I have opponents in the game, but too many of those who play treat others as enemies, not merely as game opponents.

[polska]

But you do realise this is a WAR game? This player could just let you set up, then keep attacking and destroying your villages, robbing you etc. That is after all what the game is about....

I suspect they only care about the ruins in that area. If they are a big player, they have a big army. It costs alot of gold to pay the salary of this big army, which is gotten from ruins. You moving into the area is a threat to the ruins they need to feed that army, hence warning you off.

Not sure why you dont think it should be part of the game? Just like any real world situation, somebody claims ownership to something, somebody else says no I want it, and war breaks out....

[Creoda]

I agree, now that I've had my first experience with being wiped out (after watching several others also be), I really don't get the notion that there is bashing protection at levels 1-4 but once you're level 5 someone who is effectively level 7 (or more) in ruin terms can simply have at you and wipe you out. Clearly this allows players who have been playing for a long time to dominate all smaller/newer players by wiping them out, which will, of course lead to newer players leaving the game. It does seem odd that developers haven't found a way to deal with this issue, should be fairly simple. On the other hand maybe the game plays exactly as they'd like with a free for all at level 5.

[ZenZephyr]

There's two ways to play the game I feel. Sharing and helping each other or protectionism territorialism and paranoid thinking. These big players have been here a long time, they moved away from the action (maybe because they were crap at the game) to quietly graze away, now they have become isolated and like grumpy hermits who don't want others near them, they became paranoid and defensive.

In the middle here, 'it's where the game is,' we have to share our crumbs and we fight and defend by the hour. It's knife edge living every mission could be your last but we really do play 'the game' and if players are honest they lost their armies through carelessness and lazy playing.

With the temple and closed doors you can defend against big players, also a lot of mercs and magic towers can help too. Ok, it's slow and you have to be focused but you learn a lot and you actually become a good player. A lot of edgers and paranoid hermits aren't actually very good at the game and aren't really playing.

So yes i agree they are spoiled territorial brats, who seem to hoover all the good stuff but without these huge players I think the game would loose something. Take Sauron out of lord of the rings for example and the story would be quite boring i think.

You're now a good player Ephialtis that's why the big players are cautious to attack you. Your organised with good defensive stratergies and you've come back from attacks by the biggest players in the kingdom and your still there. Be proud in that fact Also would you be such a good player without that pressure?

[Ephialtis]

Blush. It's true that constant pressure keeps you on your toes. I think, though, that it's sad that so many people choose to behave like fictional villains rather than heroes when they play these games; it says something unpleasant about modern societies.

[Atlantis1]

Given the aim of this game seems to be finding and hitting salt lakes and level 7s it would probably make sense for the big players in sparse areas to come to some sort of arrangement with smaller ones nearby as long as the smaller player isn't actually on top of them and therefore searching the same area (3 spaces should be enough for even the most claustrophobic given that searching the 25 kingdoms that are up to just 2 kingdoms away probably takes close to 2 weeks at double speed which is longer than a salt lake lasts and I wouldn't want to be leaving a level 7 unfound for nearly 2 weeks even in a sparsely populated area).

The smaller player could have 10 explorers per city out searching (that's my normal number per city, when I'm large enough to keep pits open 24/7 I may change it to 5-7 per city/pit), they won't be able to hit the level 7 themselves or keep a salt lake so coming to an agreement with them to share 50/50 would be beneficial to both players, most would probably be happy with 1 or 2 days access to unoccupied salt lakes they find, the smaller player should also report occupied salt lakes and level 5 or 6 ruins he can't take himself so the bigger player would probably end up with more ruins rather than less. Given most smaller players probably won't get into the top 25 for flags set they should also be able to agree the smaller player giving flags away once he has his first set.

I'm not a big player so maybe there are considerations I'm not yet aware of but as a smaller player I'd certainly be willing to agree to the above and I can't think of any reasons why I wouldn't agree to them if I was to become a big player. Even if the small player eventually becomes a big player I can't see any reason for them to still not cooperate on the level 7s, given they are pretty rare I'd rather have double the chance of finding one and sharing it than have half the chance but be able to take it all.

[kingkano]

Given the aim of this game seems to be finding and hitting salt lakes and level 7s it would probably make sense for the big players in sparse areas to come to some sort of arrangement with smaller ones nearby as long as the smaller player isn't actually on top of them and therefore searching the same area (3 spaces should be enough for even the most claustrophobic given that searching the 25 kingdoms that are up to just 2 kingdoms away probably takes close to 2 weeks at double speed which is longer than a salt lake lasts and I wouldn't want to be leaving a level 7 unfound for nearly 2 weeks even in a sparsely populated area).

The smaller player could have 10 explorers per city out searching (that's my normal number per city, when I'm large enough to keep pits open 24/7 I may change it to 5-7 per city/pit), they won't be able to hit the level 7 themselves or keep a salt lake so coming to an agreement with them to share 50/50 would be beneficial to both players, most would probably be happy with 1 or 2 days access to unoccupied salt lakes they find, the smaller player should also report occupied salt lakes and level 5 or 6 ruins he can't take himself so the bigger player would probably end up with more ruins rather than less. Given most smaller players probably won't get into the top 25 for flags set they should also be able to agree the smaller player giving flags away once he has his first set.

I'm not a big player so maybe there are considerations I'm not yet aware of but as a smaller player I'd certainly be willing to agree to the above and I can't think of any reasons why I wouldn't agree to them if I was to become a big player. Even if the small player eventually becomes a big player I can't see any reason for them to still not cooperate on the level 7s, given they are pretty rare I'd rather have double the chance of finding one and sharing it than have half the chance but be able to take it all.

This is the kind of thing big players do agree to But I think you will find this is exactly what the original post is complaining about?

BTW you might need to have a word with your explorers! I explore 25 kingdoms almost every day. The key is to explore 1 kingdom away from base, and have many explorer bases.

As for the whole territorial debate, sorry but the game forces you, even if you are a friendly player. You need ruins to feed your army, only so many ruins appear in each kingdom. To secure the gold for your army you need unfettered access to a certain number of kingdoms.

[Ephialtis]

I should point out that the city of mine that's at issue has no troops stationed -- I don't use it to go for ruins, and it's pretty obvious to anyone who spies on it (which includes the player who threatened me) that that's the case. It hasn't stopped the constant aggravation from him. The area has few cities, I'm three kingdoms away from him, and I don't go for ruins... I think that his aggression is something other than the practical need to feed his army. I need to feed mine, and my main cities are in a very crowded area, with lots of competition for ruins -- if I can manage under those circumstance, he must be a very poor player if he can't do the same in a much better situation.

[Atlantis1]

BTW you might need to have a word with your explorers! I explore 25 kingdoms almost every day. The key is to explore 1 kingdom away from base, and have many explorer bases.

That's exactly what I do and I'm getting around 10 kingdoms per day across all my cities but I don't have the double speed explorers yet since I don't yet have the army to be able to raid them all since I have to keep them as one to raid and move them around. I have 10 explorers per city (searching 2 kingdoms with 5 each, when I can keep pits open I'll probably put explorers in them and only use one explorer building per domain) and I only have them searching one kingdom out

My 25 kingdoms taking 2 weeks was based on one city searching up to 2 squares out with 10 explorers at double speed, basically going 2 squares out instead of just one drops the number of kingdoms explored by around 1.5 and takes ages and therefore isn't advisable so my argument was that the big player shouldn't worry about someone that is 3 squares away as mentioned in the original question since they shouldn't be exploring the same areas so they aren't losing anything and could instead come to an agreement and actually get some of the benefit from the smaller players explorers. Admittedly I didn't explicitly state that they shouldn't be looking 2 squares out but I thought it was pretty clear when I mentioned it would take 2 weeks for a city to do so and I wouldn't want to be leaving salt lakes or level 7's for that long that I wouldn't do that and I didn't think it was advisable to do so.

[Hockers]

Great game and I'am bang in the middle of the board and a lot of players who tend to dominate one player until they get bored and stop playing or move their opperations with the threat of more of the same. My mentor Onoquoy was just shy of the top 100 and I did graduate with his help but he got hit big time and simply packed in without a word . Like me he subscribed and so far I have invested £250-£350 (Can't drink don't smoke my escape) So to be constantly dictated to and bullied can get tiresome ....... b ut don't let the Mofo's wear you down as Zenzephyr says keep on your toes and don't play a lazy game . Anyway good gaming and stay safe from the bullies . P.S I'am under the cosh at the minute by a very big player because I have several pits/mines and a city in the controlled zones and have lost 2 salt lakes but sel la vie I WILL NOT LAY DOWN TO THE CLOWN .

[Ephialtis]

Yes, good advice. And the experience I cited at the beginning of this thread is a minor one. Much more serious is the behaviour of one clan (we all know which) who treat the world map as belonging to them, rather as criminal gangs lay claim to areas of cities. Take a Salt Lake, and they threaten you, offering a deal: you can have the Lake for three days, then you have to give it to them. refuse, and they'll make your life (and the lives of your clanmates) a misery.

They ordered one player to join their clan, and when she refused they threatened that if she joined another clan they'd attack her and the other members of the clan.

It's not clear to me why such people choose to behave like a cross between gangsters and small children bullying their schoolmates; the usual response is that this is a WAR game -- but this isn't the way people play war games except on line. A game is played between friends, or at least between people on a friendly basis. These people are so despicable in their behaviour that they have to threaten decent players in order to get them to join their clan. That should tell us all we need to know about them.

[Incidentally, the claim that they're just trying to support their armies doesn't wash; when we try moving away, they follow us... They build new cities near us, take over pits near us -- and then claim that they're only attacking us to defend "their" areas.]

[BlasterXL]

first of all brainz > muscles in STRATEGY games

second of all i've also played a lot of strategy games and the buttom line is u cant beat it alone, now there are a lot of good guilds who accept newbies take barracuda and scoria for example (but offc u have to make up weakness with activity) and preparing your citties with the proper defenses is a necessity to receive your allies aid when the time comes

and third of all, words are a very poweful weapon if u know how to use them

[ZenZephyr]

Territory, well a dog needs territory it's an animalistic attitude where has a higher conscious player shares it's space and a diversity of ideas and partnerships lets each player grow.

These are the competing attitudes in the game. The maths are against the Territor-ians that is why they are so desperate to keep their territory, that is why they attack players who are getting over 200 mill army strength

This game is ruled 'so far' by grumpy territorians but maybe that will change if those who share can be durable enough and resourceful enough to survive the savage backward thinking strategies of grumpy players, who grow bitter and lonely in the cold soup of their own malcontent.

[Ozyr]

First of all. Big player can just attack anybody without saying "hello".
In second - big player needs at least 20 - 25 ruins lvl 5-6 a day just to feed army. Lets be clear - we have low number of 1-4 lvl players. Almost everywhere kingdoms are filled with low lvl ruins. The life cicle of ruins allow to keep big army in one way - only one big player in selected area. Its allow low lvl ruins to dessapear with time and free place for new ruins.
This is main aim of the game - to fight for the territory. If you can't fight, you can't grow army higher than some level. If you will not grow your army, than you oneday will be under attack of somebody, who can smash you. Want peace - its your own choice, but its unacceptable for big players.
I know, its unfair. I know that some players think about top players like tops are some kind of animals. But you need to write about this situation to administration, add some ideas. If tops will be allowed to feed their army wthout those 20-25 ruins per day, than this map will become more free.

ps: sorry if I or my clan mates offended anybody. Our armies just need gold to stay alive.

[Fizulij]

For what it's worth - I think that, out of all top ranked players, you Ozyr managed to earn the most respect from other players.

You are always straightforward, you don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't play schemes... you were always honest.

This is the kind of game that just makes you defend the farming territory, we all understand that. So every true player will not be mad at you. He will try to outplay you, to compete with you.


And yes... developers should come up with some ideas that could help new Suzerains settle... but until then, the strongest ones will always try to keep their territories clean. That's just how this game works, unfortunately.

[Ephialtis]

For what it's worth - I think that, out of all top ranked players, you Ozyr managed to earn the most respect from other players.

I agree.

My problem is really with people who don't in fact need that number of ruins, but act as though they do. For example, MrKingas at the moment is insisting that no-one goes for ruins around his cities, even when the other players have been there longer than him, and have their capitals there -- but his army is considerably smaller than mine, and I don't have to behave like that in order to survive. Moreover, he and others present it as though they have a right to be morally indignant when "their" ruins are taken, insulting those who take them, and "punishing" them (only the weaker ones, though), while at the same time behaving in exactly the same way themselves. MrKingas regularly goes for ruins near my capital and well away from his own. I dislike double standards, especially when combined with bullying.

[Ozyr]

MrKingas doesn't have big army. Use sentense - "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Usually strong players want to get some FP or exp, you need just to show your enemy on ruin to somebody who live not so far from you. Early or later somebody strong enough will come to visit him =)
Player can have aggressive stile of gaming(why not?), but insulting is unacceptable in any case i think. Why are you still not in war with him?

ps: thanks for good words about me...

[Ephialtis]

He's a member of a clan with which we're supposed to be allies... But you're right -- it's getting to the point where we may have to point a bigger player at him -- or hit him hard ourselves to make a point, whatever the consequences.